Corey Glickman on Smart Spaces

Jeff Kavanaugh: Welcome to this episode of the Knowledge Institute, where we talk with experts on business trends, deconstruct main ideas, and share their insights. Today I am happy to be joined by Corey Glickman, partner and head of strategic design consulting for Infosys, a global leader in digital services and consulting. Welcome, Corey.

Corey Glickman: Thank you, Jeff. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today.

Jeff Kavanaugh: Well, I'm excited about this one because of the topic and also the broader implications. Before we dive into smart spaces, which is going to be the topic for this discussion, do you mind giving some background, kind of your journey and maybe how you got to this point in your career?

Corey Glickman: How I would describe myself is that I have had a background in design foremost. I also have had strong experiences in the areas of engineering and physics. I've had the honor and opportunity to work with the Navy and many of our government agencies, [inaudible 00:01:06] in particular. I've also had unique opportunities where I've worked with some leaders in the entertaining and business fields. I would say that my combination of backgrounds over the last 35 years has really been a combination of both in industry and as a consultant. I've got to work with many specialists in many types of fields. And all this has really helped, I think, bring a perspective when I look at problem solving.

Jeff Kavanaugh: Knowing you and your background, one of the things I also want to share with the listeners is you've won some global and very prestigious awards in the area of design, as well as being on review boards for publications like Harvard Business Review and others. Your expertise and your insight is very welcome here. Prior to taking on your role at Infosys, in the strategic design consulting, what are some of the more interesting things, maybe, about design and about these areas could you highlight as we get started?

Corey Glickman: My experiences when I first started out, was in the area of physics. Looking at, actually, nuclear engineering. Early on in my education. And that was probably where one of my first crossroads actually started for me. I was able to team up with one of the early designers and scientists who were actually working on the first Star Wars film. The very, very first one. And he was one of my college professors, and I had the opportunity to understand how does light and perspective work on sets. And where does light and perspective help you create these ... Not just imaginary worlds, but situations that you can imagine yourself in. And create not just an illusion, but actually an emotional connection to storytelling. And that becomes very relevant throughout my whole career around storytelling. And also having the science behind it to actually exponentially make that storytelling not just more believable, but maybe something achievable in the future.

Corey Glickman: Having passed that point, coming out of the physics realm, I then start taking classes in theology through other professors recommendations. Because science alone is not the only answer to many questions that I had. Or problems that I was trying to look at. And so, theology is also interesting, and concepts of faith, and concepts of understanding the covenants of society, and how so many of our laws and how we get along, which is so relevant today, are derived. And in that direction I had a very, very interesting mentor, who many people know as one of the early pioneers of child television, PBS, was Fred Rogers. Who actually was a rheologist. Who I worked with for close to 10 years. And he was quite revolutionary back in the 1950s. Where he took an outstanding new technology called television and said it has to be more than clowns being hit in the face with pies. And actually that you can teach messages, and you can start to talk to a wider audience.

Corey Glickman: And what was amazing about Fred Rogers over his 30+ year career on television was the fact that he had a very consistent message. And it was very honest, and it really talked to everybody, and it talked about consistency of brand, and consistency of message. And there's certainly a lot of lessons I learned through there. Then going forward, my next stop on education was actually with the Navy, with the [Annapolis War College 00:05:11], where I did several assignments and programs and still have a relationship there. Where I met other great mentors. One in particular who was actually a very famous submarine captain during World War II, and he taught me many life lessons about command and control. And how do you lead, how do you trust teams. So there just been a combination of experiences for myself. And those have basically allowed me to deploy those lessons learned, whether it has been for producing television shows, designing for those, working on science projects.

Corey Glickman: I've done large events such as the Nagano Olympics, back in the 1990s, where I was one of the lead producers on this. I've done work where I've helped General Motors restructure during the mid 2000s. I have done many, many kinds of design projects over my 30 something plus year career. And I've been lucky enough to have won many awards, as you've said. One of the biggest two honors that I could say that I could directly relate to is, I was named one of the 100 most influential designers of the period. And that was quite an honor. The second one was that I was selected to help lead a program around Frank Lloyd Wright for the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, as a permanent exhibit. So these are things, along the way, just doing business, and solving problems, and working with many, many different kinds of individuals, whether technologists, designers, business folks, on the kinds of problems they need to solve. Always excited whatever I'm working on currently. Always excited to be working with new people.

Jeff Kavanaugh: Well, I appreciate you sharing that. Not only does it establish a background, it also... So many things we could talk about, maybe in a future discussion. I like to do is, bring that then to more of a focus on the topic for today, which is smart spaces. And it's an area that might sound obvious, or might sound a bit ambiguous. Could you help us understand what smart spaces are, and why they're important now?

Corey Glickman: Smart spaces, I think is the hot topic of the day, if not for the next decade. Smart spaces are building an area where we are now putting sensors, and technology, and access to data, that are helping us be more productive. And why it's important now is the fact that the cost of getting access to the data and deploying these technologies is very achievable at this point. And that's why it's relevant. Along with the social needs of populations that are shifting around the globe right now. And the fact that we have changing expectations of workforces. We have much more of a social consciousness around, what does it mean to be a worker, or to have property, or how do our cities function and operate? The idea of smart spaces, which I would qualify as, it could be a space in a building. It could be a building. It could be a green space. It could be four city blocks. It could be an entire city. I'd say we can't leave out the idea of smart factories, stadiums.

Corey Glickman: All of these areas are being looked at right now because the technology enablement is there. It's becoming a reality. There are true business cases behind here. They are doable things. We've gone from imaging what these could be to actually starting down that path right now. And we are just starting that journey. Design at this level is about systems design. And that means when you have many complex moving parts, you can still break those pieces down into sizable chunks that you can make reasonable products on. And the ability to architect and manage those, and understand their systems that include complex data, that include the human element, that include the physical element, the technology element, the unknown elements. Ultimately, that's where design has to go. And if we think about spaces and cities now, most of the technology has been applied to devices.

Corey Glickman: They've been applied to cars and other ... Refrigerators, and other appliances. Or things that we use in our everyday life right now. But those didn't exist a hundred years ago in many cases. But now, the scale of what's happening at the smart city level and smart space level is that I can actually have environments through the use of sensors, through the use of data, through the use of understanding what expectations are of these generation of workers that the environment can now greatly enhance, whether it's productivity, whether it is around sustainability goals, whether it's around energy efficiency. These are all doable, achievable components now within these systems. So design really makes this happen.

Jeff Kavanaugh: Once again, you're listening to the Knowledge Institute, where we talk with experts on business trends, deconstruct main ideas, and share their insights. We're here with Corey Glickman, leader of strategic design at Infosys, on the topic of smart spaces. And Corey, you've mentioned everything from what's happening at an individual level all the way to literally cities. Why not go somewhere in the middle and give an example. Perhaps what Infosys did with their Mysore Campus. And maybe relate some of these things you mentioned to a real life situation.

Corey Glickman: We've actually have been on a 10 year journey in this particular campus with ourselves. And with our clients. To understand that, first of all that Infosys is a large technology company that has 220,000 workers currently. 10 years ago we had about a quarter of that many. So we've had extreme growth over these 10 years. Over this 10 years, we've had to change as our clients have had to change. And that means the way that we handle that is by becoming a institution that is continually learning. And it's through this need of continuous learning, that we had to establish campuses within one of our places in Mysore, in India, that ... Where we could train now, today, up to 16,000 people on any given day. So this is one of the factors that goes into the designing of our campuses. There also in an area of the developing world, in Asia, in India. So one of the opportunities that you have when you are in a developing environment and in a developing social nation, is that you have this opportunity to take what others have done in the past and take the next step. So there is more knowledge, there is more learning.

Corey Glickman: There is this basic fundamental concept that the type of solutions that you come up with are directly proportional to the size of the problem you need to solve. For instance, in India where water is a big issue, you have to come up with solutions that are very respectful of water resources. If you're putting in new energy systems, it's much more likely that you're going to be able to really focus on alternative energy sources vs. energy that has been thought of over the last 100 years. You're going to also think about healthier food options. You are going to understand with a growing population, as I've said about continuous learning, that how can you provide the tools and the environment for individuals to maximize potential. We've been on a 10 year journey of learning, and deploying in our Mysore campus as an example, how do we deploy these kinds of solutions? Where we first started is, we clearly established what our business goals would be. We defined what did it mean to have a smart campus and a smart building? We prioritized ...

Corey Glickman: Your organizational goals don't just have to be about yourself, they can't be. It also had to be about all the different kinds of clients that you're servicing. And your partners that you are working with in order to bring solutions there. And these are factors, among others, that you need to consider with. Then the second part, which is always necessary is, how do you get buy in from your organization? How do you learn to cut across the silos of how you do business as normal, typical up til now? And to be able to achieve some of these new goals. And how can you make your organization proficient and productive in these areas? And you try things. They go from ideas to proof of concepts, to pilots. Some work, some don't work. You look where your investment is. You learn from your partners. You learn from your experiences across there. And you have to have engagement from both at the top level of your organization and also buy in from the bottom level.

Corey Glickman: And then, of course you will have to find your champion. And make an environment where those champions can success across there. The third lesson I've learned is really around how to develop clear KPIs so that you can maximize your return on investment. And this really, a two stage part of this. How are you going to justify these investments when it's such a new area? Even after 10 years, it's still a new area. Every year we look at a series of opportunities, or a series of objectives and goals that we want to choose from, you can't do everything. So how do you prioritize? And the lesson learned there is that if you can visualize 10 years out, maybe even 20 years out, but I usually say 10 years out, of what does good look like? What does the ... Goals should be from an organization point of view? We don't have to have that technology just yet because how can you predict what technology is going to be in 10 years? But you should be able to do the stories.

Corey Glickman: You should be able to start to identify the KPIs that are important and relevant. And then, simultaneously, there are things that you can be doing right now to start putting you down that path. And I would describe those as edge opportunities. We all are talking about autonomous vehicles, and when will that truly hit the tipping point? That could be 2 years, it could be 7 years out. Depending on what part of the world that you're in. However, right now we do have some areas around these vehicles that we could be doing tests with right now. That we could be creating wave finding systems. Or smart parking. So there are things that we could be doing right now, that we do do, to try, learn, harden that technology, find the partners who are involved in there, understand the business value realization across there. So, we can look at KPIs, that are being learned by those quick proof of concepts and pilots, and see how they line up to these longer term KPIs going across there.

Corey Glickman: And then, the next step is really starting starting with the focus incremental approach. So you want to build on the right foundation. And what I mean by that right foundation is not just saying that you have the very best technology or business solution. I think having the right foundation along with adoption is really more about, are you building solutions or are you creating the environment and the opportunities that ultimately they become the standards that also others use. Because even if you come up with the very best technology solution, and the very best product out there, if you are the only one doing it, it will not grow and succeed. And it also will not contribute socially for everybody else who is trying to go down these paths. What you want to do is, you want to place the right bets. You want to share information. You want to make sure that you're not on an island when this is all done.

Corey Glickman: Or else you applying that, the short gain wins that you have, will not extend in scale. And scale is absolutely imperative. Most companies, and most individuals, they can do what we refer to as the zero to 1. I can do something one off. I can be very smart, get very good people in place, and they can solve a problem for you. And they can do it once. And they can do it to a certain size. But it's the scaling which is what's ultimately important. Because if it doesn't scale, if it doesn't reach to a certain level, if it can be done at a certain price point, if it doesn't have a certain amount of touch points, then it doesn't matter how good your idea was. If it doesn't scale, it doesn't work. And scaling itself is very hard.

Corey Glickman: So that has to be baked into your approach when you go across there. And another point that I would call out, although there are others, but just because it's such a relevant topic today, and that's about security. Whether that security has to deal with data, whether it has to deal with personal safety, whether it has to deal with IP, this idea of security embedded from day 1, as we think about things, is absolutely vital for us at this point. I'd be happy to share with you some of the KPIs if you'd like, of what we've actually achieved on our campuses?

Jeff Kavanaugh: That was the next question, is if you could crystallize that to say what are a small number of the most important benefits? Because people often think, this is great. Probably good for the environment. Sounds pretty cool with all the technology and everything happening. But can it save money? Does it make business sense? Maybe if you could highlight a couple examples of those metrics or KPIs, and relate it, that'd be nice.

Corey Glickman: There are many KPIs that you could look at. Let me break this down into 2 section, and I'll explain why. Some of the KPIs that we would all recognize in the areas of, say, energy and sustainability, those are numbers that I think are easily or more readily recognizable to say, did I have an impact? And we'll talk about those first. Those are numbers that, did I reduce my energy footprint? Did I reduce my carbon footprint? Those are things that, whether you're doing a retrofit building or if you're putting objectives towards a green filled opportunity, you can set goals that are quite measurable. And you can actually achieve those results in a relatively quick time. So let me give you some examples here. On our Mysore campus, as I explained, it's been a 10 year journey, and it's a 10 year string that we're on. 10 years ago, we had 30-40,000 people that were on that campus. 2, 3 years ago, we had basically a 100,000 people on that campus. Now we have about 140,000 people. But over those 2 years, we've done some amazing things by requiring smart systems to the problem set.

Corey Glickman: So, for instance, while we've increased our population, our energy consumption has actually been reduced by 34%. Through using alternative energy solutions. And that has ranged from biofuels to solar energy sets to the ability to put improved [IOT 00:21:27] enabled chillers in place. So even while we've increased the amount of users, we've made significant reductions in energy usage. Water consumption is another one. As I mentioned before, this is a very, very big issue in India and other parts of the world. That, over the last 3 years, we've actually reduced the amount of water usage by 59%. That's a remarkable statistic. So let's just say it's 60%, of our water is now reclaimed and reused. And that's just so important because water is just such a valuable resource here. The idea of waste management, 50% reduction in plastic consumption, that we will have achieved by the year 2020.

Corey Glickman: I know I have children now who are just getting into the college level at this point, and the top discussion every time is about plastics in the ocean, and micro plastics, and this whole new field. And the fact that this idea that we're reducing plastics at a rate of 60% at this point is, I think, just phenomenal. We've also looked at green space. We've improved areas with better foliage coverage. That's planting trees and green walls across there. We've actually had over 160,000 trees planted within the last 3 years on our campuses. And the renewable energy, as we talked before, about self-generation, we've actually increased that by a level of 40%. So that's really the first category of measurements that I could say what makes a place smart? What have we achieved? What is doable from both a sustainability perspective and carbon, and those energy sides? And, as I said, those are numbers that are very tangible. That you can put a business case against. And you can really make happen.

Corey Glickman: There is another side of the question which socially and intuitively, people are seeking, organizations are seeking, that has to do with the idea of worker productivity. And the ideas of user experience. And this idea of understanding the shifting desires and needs of populations across here. And those are harder to measure, because they take longer to see. And it's not typically a thing that you can put a number against to say, did I make it happier at work today? Or, am I being more productive than maybe another factor? However, if you're going to be attracting and retaining the work force that you need to bring the right level of people in, not just to deliver better work, but to be the kind of company that you want to be, I think one of the key aspects that I see over and over again of people who want to do this kind of work, they always talk about ...

Corey Glickman: They're fascinated by the technology. They're fascinated by the potential. But they're also saying that it's really in their hands of what kind of world will we become? We can become a very good place. We can have higher ideals and goals. And they feel that this is a venue that can actually ... They can be part of achieving that. And it's those kinds of situations or scenarios that now we're looking at a different kind of economy. We're looking at a outcome based economy. We're saying, if I have control of your factories as your partner, can I make you more productive? And I'll assume the risk whether or not productivity goes up. If I am going to make a place where people prefer to work and they're more productive, and they are more balanced in their life, those are outcome based scenarios. And they're a new way of writing contracts and agreements between organizations and ourselves to say how are we working with ecosystems together, in order to make this take place.

Jeff Kavanaugh: What are the executives telling you as they're sharing with you their stories out there in the market, about the challenges they have in wanting to do this? And what are those few things that are helping them get past it, or get going on it? What are those barriers and what are the ways to overcome the barriers?

Corey Glickman: So I get to meet with many senior executives at the C level who have this vision. And this is definitely on top of their list of agendas, to say, how does my organization deal with this? And there's a couple of reasons for that. One is, as we talked about, the workforce. The second is the fact that one of the largest cost factors for any organization is their use of space. A tremendous amount of money is put into space. And understanding how it is used, whether it's a factory or whether it's an office space. Optimizing and improving that has huge financial returns that can also be invested in new technologies and new business opportunities and ventures across here. And it's also about being a corporate citizen. One of the largest challenges that they have is that this business about putting up facilities or smart spaces, they would say, maybe 30 years ago, or up to now, and for the last 30 years, it's all relatively done in the same way, this idea of a general contractor who has many vendors working underneath.

Corey Glickman: And they have to be able to figure out how do I design the right building for its purpose? And how do I know that I'm putting enough technology in place not just for today but that I'm not going to have to replace in a couple of years? That is a big concern as they look at these investments. They also want to understand that their existing buildings, how are they being optimized? And should they be modernized? I would say the general rule of thumb is about 75-80% of the buildings out there are going to have to be retrofitted. They're not going to build new buildings in most cases. And then there are new buildings that will happen, and also different problems to solve across there. To the contracting process and the ability to have this delivery take place is a very complex area. There's both the physical aspect of it, there's many, many contractors. There's different kinds of specialists. So this is not something that is typically that you would see at that level of an agenda for a CEO.

Corey Glickman: But now they have to pay attention to it, because the dollars in the future are just so significant in cost there. So, how do you get it right? That is really the question here. And the typically traditional players, generally the ones who are around are very, very good. They've been doing business in the same way for many years. But they're modernizing. They're starting to expand how they offer their services to a company that might have just produced elevators or heating systems, for instance, is now producing software solutions that go along with those components around the data. The whole idea of software companies are now going and saying, guess what? We can also look at buildings. And we can help you with your general contracting leads, and spec-ing out and managing many of these vendors across here. So, it's hard for these CEOs and C level executives to know, who do I go with? And how do I make these decisions coming across here? Because it's changing so quickly.

Corey Glickman: And the answer is, honestly, it's an ecosystem play. These are large system designed programs where no one vendor is going to be able to give you everything. One or two vendors will be able to give you, say, the general contracting role, to manage these pieces. But those particular vendors are going to rely on a series of sub vendors that specialize in, whether it's physical systems or software systems to come about. It's very hard, right? And there's a lot of things that are changing right now. The advice that I would give to anybody at this point is, once again, establishing what your goals are and then understanding, where you do start, with some specific use cases. Do not try to do a whole building from day 1. Take a floor. Or take a couple floors of a building, and start running some important aspects. Whether it's visitor management or occupancy usage. Or perhaps it's a smart parking solution. I have these conversations with individuals, and they say, if I had that parking situation solved, that would relieve so much stress, and it would free up X amount of funds coming across there.

Corey Glickman: So that's a starting point. The fact of the matter is that the systems that you would put in place, and the philosophy of how did you get there, is then transferable into many other use cases, both the physical and the visual side. Ultimately, these solutions are going to utilize things such as visual twins, where you can understand the presence of a situation, of a person or a business application or an experience, in a certain point of time, and using a visual twin, I can both see what's happening, or I can predict what's going to happen across there. And I'm going to attach those to control rooms that are going to be able to do monitoring and also do the stress testing across there. Ironically, or fortunately, many of the ways to populate the visual twin is through data. And data, as we all know, is a big thing, but collection of data is not that big or expensive. Sensors are relatively inexpensive, whether it's through lighting systems or systems that might be embedded in your environment, beacons, etc.

Corey Glickman: The collection of that data is not expensive, so you do have access to that data. What you do with that data and how you choose to act upon that, those are business logic. And this is also becoming less and less of a cost because this is where you'll see machine learning and AI truly start to see its potential. So now you have this ability to look at scenarios, you have this ability to visualize and understand what's happening or what could happen or what has happened. And now you can start putting value realization against there. So CEO and a decision maker is now able to put a real business case behind here. And it's amazing when we have these discussions. Year 1 it's usually, let's take a small space, 1 or 2 floors of a building. Usually by 1 year and a 1/2, it's saying, let's take 2 of our buildings. One that's retro and one that is being put up new greenfields. And then they're saying in 5 years, what happens if we take this to 600 buildings, across the board?

Corey Glickman: Because it's that clear of a case why you can make this leap from say 1 or 2 buildings to 600 buildings, because the business case is readily identifiable once you do 1 or 2 buildings. And it becomes such a compelling [inaudible 00:32:41] to say, I'm using my space better, I'm attracting that workforce. I'm reducing my energy costs by 50%, I am having this ability to have productivity reach new heights. I'm doing things that are more socially responsible, that they will put the funding behind there, as long as the technology is going to be able to support that. And that the ability for the investment can take place, right? And there's always a case for the investment if you can prove that it will improve your business. And if it helps retain customers, if it helps bring in new customers. If it helps bring in the future workforce. It's a clear cut case of what's going on. This idea of smart spaces is really the manifestation of that 100 billion objects that we all talk about being connected and talking to each other. It's really what it's about.

Jeff Kavanaugh: You mention sustainability and the social aspect, especially for the new entrants to the workforce, although this is important for all of us. Given the United Nations and their sustainable development goals or SDGs, the 17 that, more or less, look at solving the existential issues, and giving everyone a framework for them. As I was looking and preparing for this, looking at the 17, there are a few that really stood out. Obviously, the first one is number 11, which is called sustainable cities and communities. But also there is number 9, which includes industry, innovation, infrastructure. And then number 12, which is responsible consumption and production. And the numbers aren't as important as just to reinforce the point, what you're talking about with smart spaces is directly related to these and several others. Could you talk about the impact for environmental and social progress, both in the developing world ... I shouldn't say developing, but China, India, and some of the economies that are really on fire now, they're really growing, as well as some of the Western countries?

Corey Glickman: That is such an important issue right now. Because if you really look at what's happening with the shift of populations, and both the economic and social impact that we're seeing globally at this point in history. This idea of moving an industrial base or having workforces or new populations coming into areas to thrive, basically, right? And also to leave areas that might not be doing so well. We have a new generation of individuals that have come up that say sustainability is just so important. There is no option. We need to get this right. So, how do you do that? At one level it is a social consciousness, then on another level it's also very much a scientific process, right? If we look at, say, the players or the roles of who can make this happen, first. In one aspect, there are business and there are individuals that I would call the makers, right? They have great ideas. They have brilliant ideas. That say, let's not use plastic straws anymore. Let's find new ways of taking micro plastics out of the ocean. Let's find ways of controlling traffic patterns and reducing our carbon footprint.

Corey Glickman: And these ... They get funded through venture capitalists. They get funded through grants. They find ways of bringing this about. Those are point solutions, they're very important. What's hard for them though, is to scale. How many of those individuals with those great ideas actually can do this on their own? Ultimately, they have to team with others both financially and technologically and socially, in order to bring about. On the other side of this equation is the idea of science. Will science have to take place in order to know that you're getting it right? Data is hard things to understand. If you're truly going to do things that are going to make a difference in areas such as sustainability and innovation, they have to be backed by real science and real engineering in order for them to really be effective and to be sound, so that it cane expand and scale across there. So I believe that there's opportunity in the middle of practical application of a role that, sitting between the science, which is very hard for most people to understand, and the energetic makers, that have great ideas, how can we bring that science to a level where it can be applied.

Corey Glickman: And once again, accelerators like artificial intelligence and technology and smart environments, will have a huge impact across there. If you truly think who uses a city, not everybody's a technologist, right? There are so many other roles that people play that make that difference of why is something sustainable? Who is driving those cars, or who's riding in those cars? Who is populating those buildings across there? They want to be able to use the technology or use the experiences around the technology for them to achieve what they need to do in their daily lives. But they don't have to understand it to the Nth level of science across there. So, making it accessible, I just heard a term which I strongly like is, the democratization of digital or artificial intelligence. Allowing it to proliferate at all levels for all types of individuals is how this will come about. And I think it's through that democratization, understanding of inclusiveness around the globe, and what the differences are of working in Asia vs. in the East or in parts of Europe also, and the West and the U.S., and other countries that might be more developed in some ways.

Corey Glickman: That is what's going to level and make this happen. And I truly believe that by embracing a wider idea of solutioning and looking at those problems that need to be solved, is what's going to drive it. And it goes back to a thing that I mentioned earlier. The idea that the problem you're trying to solve directly impacts how good of a solution, or what size of a solution you actually go with. If you're in an area that does not have great water access, and you need to have water for your population, you are much more likely going to deploy a very good water reclamation program. If you're in an area that's okay with water, you'll probably do the minimal to go there. And you will not have as great a investment in those technologies. And eventually you'll probably fall behind of that other area. I think it's absolutely a fascinating time in history at this point.

Jeff Kavanaugh: What's the biggest misconception about smart spaces?

Corey Glickman: The biggest misconception about smart spaces is that our current ways of thinking about deploying and executing the general contracting part of the solution, that putting up the buildings, that deploying the solutions, can be done in a way that it's been done for the last 30 years. There has to be a new way of working through this through an ecosystem of partners. Not all of which traditionally have been in this idea of facilitation and management. So that is really the biggest misconception. And the ability to understand that it is going to take the next 10 to 20 years to truly fulfill this. And I think what will be surprising is how large this will actually become, compared to other waves of technology and social impact.

Jeff Kavanaugh: It sounds like smart spaces make a lot of business sense. What about the impact socially and on the environment?

Corey Glickman: So, the social impact is undeniable. The idea of what we're seeing today in shifting populations, of the idea of the changing workforce. The new social consciousness of doing what's right, and making the world a better place. This idea that our buildings and our cities, and our spaces can now actually use technology, can actually use data, use ideas like artificial intelligence, to amplify the ... To increase the odds of being successful, is absolutely a measurable, doable thing to happen right now. And it will happen at all levels. It just won't be the technologists and the scientists that will make this happen.

Corey Glickman: It will be all manners of workers, and participants in our society coming across, into our cities. I think the very definition of what defines a city will actually be impacted across here. So it's all about how to make the world a better place. How to have people live longer. How to deal with the scarce resources that we have. How to come up with better solutions. So that the basic needs and the basic rights of individuals in societies are respected. That we're all more tolerant. And that we actually start pushing forward to make this a better place.

Jeff Kavanaugh: Fantastic. Corey, if people would like to learn more about you, what's the best way they can find you online?

Corey Glickman: Sure. Happy to have discussion with anybody. Very easy to get ahold of. I can be reached through my contacts at Infosys. That's very easy. It's my first name, Corey.Glickman@Infosys.com. I'm also on the faculty of [inaudible 00:42:55] University, where I head up the smart city curriculum and program. I also have associations with MIT University and Carnegie Mellon University. You can also find me through LinkedIn, through my profile. And like I said, I answer everybody's phone calls, everybody's emails. One of my mentors in the past has always done that, and it's something that I've always made sure that I did it also.

Jeff Kavanaugh: And everyone, you can find details also on our show notes and transcripts, @Infosys.com/IKI in our podcast section. Corey, thank you so much for your time, and highly interesting discussion.

Corey Glickman: Jeff, I want to thank you and I want to thank anybody who's taking the time to listen to this. I'm very interested in your thoughts about this, also, so hopefully we can continue our conversation.

Jeff Kavanaugh: Great. Everyone, you've been listening to the Knowledge Institute, where we talk with experts on business trends, deconstruct main ideas, and share their insights. Until next time, thanks for listening, and keep learning.